War3:Source

Well hi there, humanoids.

I was perusing your forums in an effort to find out what, specifically, the Shopmenu2 items DO, and I decided that, while I was here, I might as well post some of the race idea's I've been tossing around on my CSS clan's forums.

I'll introduce myself a bit first before I post the ideas here.

I'm known commonly as "Meta," "Nexus," or "Meta Nexus." Though I am prone to random name changes for up to a couple days, I usually settle back into one of those three monikers. I am a long-time admin and member of a popular CSS clan called "The Mafia's Underground" or "TMU," and we have perhaps the most popular War3/WCS servers on CSS (though I don't know the actual numbers, I think we're at least in the top5). We used to have a couple of War3 coders, but one got canned for stealing the clan's funds, and the other gave up coding War3 and switched to WCS (which made our clan's owner, Chuck, sad). Chuck's on these forums a bit, as I've seen, and he might post here. HI CHUCK!

Anyway that's enough background info, perhaps.

These are ideas I had recently-ish (from up to a couple months ago to today) that I, as stated before, posted in TMU's forums just to get them out of my head, really.

I'll put them in individual posts and in


for ease of perusal and commentary.

I encourage the commentary part, as I am quite vain and like compliments. If you think my ideas are utter trash or otherwise not code-able, then feel free to say so in the form of an upbeat song.

Here's the format I used, by the way:


And now, here's the race ideas, in order of release, thus far!

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRe9f-lE8yde_Y8UWiIzYbz37qDccbTyWga1EWgzZsF1z__efms)

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6a1s2LC50Wgoo-kz-w_cCxW67JHl2hY45eOZ_cyI-6GZ1CpRy)

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081019212316/starocean/images/thumb/5/51/Albel3.jpg/148px-Albel3.jpg)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRW7Y4Mr0xgIvd-XLhm1PTelWDf8ZDXPwc90rt9cQPYp75WsGou)

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5tthYOS9YyPGo-lkIVx1vHXfuCru7ysXsAJD5iksbGnsEvHpocQ)

NO PICTURE

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQekRMQvVuq6lQr1gqGBWt4bOYwdDalxsMvSrNty039bhu8aesm)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRes_S06J8qhLBFWTlBWJkI-fLif5CyYmmZSC4G7Vlt2Xo-tqXK)

(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRhjeBgAJp6xSrnJLFnE955qY5Mj7NKgZm0MyD2m-3f673g2U8R)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRqS7dQbw2T_SdSfeG9n_5hc-9_EIvpGEBZDWBEW3t33ooNyJBt)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsTGpPNZh0keybTsqq1PSoa65y3mxTkQHeyHnrAjVJz65038tA)

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSZUgGBTOUlEiM090Rt_f4Jetqw5ai9ITrhtBDVkjlK2WI-8FLMBQ)

(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcThKmrr8bcVTgUFORWm-Gqxm4-YYFnbY6Im-6fg46X5Ug70GZn1)

There IS a labcoat model, even one within HL itself. As my focus is on CSS, I cannot guarantee a stable model in any other games, but it SHOULD work.

It's him: http://developer.valvesoftware.com/w/images/1/16/Kleiner.jpg

And his model can be found in:
[ROOT]\models\Kleiner.mdl

Kleiner hast a lot of animations, ie reloading, shooting, walking, jumping. Therefore, he makes the perfect model for your race.

I won't build it within the next two weeks, as I have a lot of work to do, but if anyone does: use that model. Works like a charm.

the model wont work I think because the animation sequences have wrong names(css cannot re-play them unless they are named like in t_Leet.mdl or whatever)

The Kleiner model would have to be rigged to a CSS skeleton for it to be usable.

What do you think of the other races though? Aside from that some are OP (I labeled the OP-looking ones "Private" generally).

Kleiner model will be work, but not correctly, because have no animations for CSS-weapons

use the one from garry's mod.  the anims might not look perfect, but they'd work

Is anyone thinking of using any of these ideas?

I was eager to learn if anyone considered them worthy of coding or not.

most of them are not actually hard to code, you should be able to learn quickly and code the simple ones easily

Chuck was saying how you thought War3 is easy to learn....

I looked at a few of the tutorials on here and the prerequisites for learning War3...I don't meet any of them. "Know what SourceMod is, know how to read and code with SourcePawn" and that sort of thing. No idea about that stuff.

I've never taken a coding class, and the only actual race coding I've done has been C&P with the OOOOOLLLLLLLD WCS mod.

Could I learn War3?
Yeah, sure.

Would it be easy for me?
Not if I did it alone, no, because I'm too lazy to get into things I don't already have an interest in.

Would I be good at War3?
I would be exceptional at it because, as it happens, I'm good at everything I try/do.

Would I be good at coding races?
I would be exceptional at that as well because of the above answer combined with my staggeringly advanced imagination. I've already thought up races that no one knows how to code several of the skills for on my clan's forums (they aren't posted here), but if I learned to code War3, then I'd put that creative intellect to work and think of ways to code every idea I had. It would work out.

Will I learn War3?
Maybe, eventually. Chuck said no one's planning on making War3 any simpler, so that's a big strike against it (compared to WCS, War3 *IS* difficult to learn, especially for someone like me who has 0 coding/programming experience at all). On top of that I'm very lazy, as previously stated, and unlikely to take on big new projects (like learning to code/learning coding languages) without serious incentives. That's how I am right now.



So yeah, learning War3 might be time-intensive and a bit tricky for me at first, but I'd be an excellent coder after I got into it. For now though, I'll just stick to coming up with ideas until either it gets..."simple"...enough to where I wouldn't mind doing it, or some incentive or break comes through for me to where I had the time and interest to put into learning it. For now neither scenario is likely.

you can learn sourcemod in 2 days if you read DILIGENTLY (not just skim)
http://war3source.com/index.php?topic=294.0
then its Examples Examples EXAMPLES

is chuck a credible source to you?
war3 is simplified as much as it can be.
back in the days, each race had their own cooldown system
back in the days each race hooked all of their own events
back in the days each race modified their own buffs, messed with gravity, etc
if one took a look at the long winded changelog, E should appreciate the effort that has been put into simplifying and making it accessible to new programmers.

war3source is not going to be some copy and paste file like wcs. it will never be like wcs in that respect. iv said this too many times but wcs is "scripts" and w3s is actually more of an executable/binary. i dont even know how wcs does cooldowns, do timers, or hook events and does it even have an integrated buff system?

again war3source is open source which means everyone should contribute. if <some feature> is that big and useful, i can be there to help you.

I never suggested that War3 isn't "good," or that it's not learn-able, or even that it hasn't been improved/streamlined in the past. I did, however, make a statement of fact that for those who have 0 coding experience, and next-to-0 coding knowledge like myself, it would be easier to learn WCS than War3. That's not stating that either mod is better or worse, just than one is simpler to learn because it is, overall, and more or less implicitly, a simple mod. A lot more work has gone into making War3 a solid mod with no muck-ups if it is used properly, and I can respect that. That doesn't make it any easier for a code newb like myself to learn it with excess ease.

I know that by definition coding/programming is (or SHOULD be) a logical and straightforward process, and that I would probably have less trouble than about 80% of the populace of this mudball learning it. In fact it probably would be EASY for *me* to learn it, but I've spoken with more than one individual who has little-to-no coding knowledge, like myself, and when confronted with a sample of War3 code they become literally dumbfounded by it. By comparison, I can see the patterns in it, but the order escapes me.

Like understanding how/where a word is/should be used in a sentence, but not knowing its definition. Or something similar.


Anyway, as it stands I won't have any time to even CONSIDER learning this stuff till after my current semester finishes, and even then I'm sure life is going to kick me in the balls at that point. I'm due for a reality check or two, I'm sure.


--On a side note--

You just supported Chuck's claim that War3 isn't going to get any/much simpler, by the way. Or at least that it hasn't been planned to be made simpler.

And Chuck is more familiar with War3 than me regarding its updates and the goings-on of these forums, so in that respect, at least, I consider him a more credible source than say...no one?
Chuck is the only one who talks much about War3's status on our forums, and I believe I'm the only other member to peruse your forums at all, so there's that to consider.

The main problem you're having is your attitude. I don't care for it, really.

You repeatedly mention that it would be easier for you than for more people, that you'd figure it out really quick and be better than it than most people, that you're good at everything. Those *other* people worked hard learning to code and you bash on them without even knowing what an array is.

Before you even make those claims, show us what you've got. I'll be completely frank here: the main reason why I haven't considered coding your races is because most of them don't have anything that intrigues me. By now, I know how standard code is made. Ownz and pimpin did an amazing job coding these races and if you really took a look at them, you'd get it.

Besides, you can't just learn C++ by looking at good. No brain cell of yours is going to tell you "Oh, that's pointer arithmetic. I figured it'd be like this"

I have never taken a class in programming - all classes nearby just offer f****ng HTML and CSS that I don't care much for. I got a book about C on a mac, I sat down and learned about this stuff.

I tried learning wcs during that time and my eyes got cancer. That may sound funny to you, but wcs isn't easier or any smarter than wcs. It's ugly, it's ugly, it's UGLY.

I stopped after two days... Six months later, I took a look at w3s and it made sense. Sure, one might not understand how.. say, a HP bonus is given, but that's when you have your examples to study. Human uses extra hp. BOOM, there you go!

And once you've comprehended all the standard stuff, check out SourceMod and work with advanced code, read the inc files and then start working on war3source.


wall of text to meet your wall of text.

Cheers,
Vulpone


PS: If you cannot manage to learn it right now, don't. No one's going to force you or look down at you because you didn't.

PPS: Look at WCS and W3S races from a quality POV. Most WCS races are extremely flashy, and push you through the room or burn you for 100 seconds. It's all OP because someone c+p the code and edited it. War3Source is mostly balanced - it's harmonized, it respects other coders.

You're not the first to say that, and you're not the first to be wrong about me. That's generally how it begins. Someone looks at how I say things and think they can comprehend my thought processes or catch every nuance or peg me for "this" or "that" simply by the way I communicate. Weirdos, the lot of them.
Anyway, I know full well how I come across to most people, and I've even heavily implied it several times already as a bit of humor (but not everyone can understand my sense{s} of humor, or can tell when I'm joking and when I'm not, even in real life). A lot of my joking is done British-style, very dryly, and mostly in capturing/using certain mannerisms in communication as a sort of umbrella joke. Though it's something I've been doing for the majority of my life, it's somewhat difficult to describe with words alone in a simple way...I'm basically making fun of people who do things the way I do them, in the way that I do them.... It's an ongoing multi-teired joke that's partially blended with my outward personality, so it can be understandably difficult to pick up on for people who either aren't familiar with that kind of humor, or don't know me personally.

Examples of this sort of thing would be people like Larry the Cable Guy or Gilbert Gottfried. Their entire personae are facades that capture a certain base stereotype, and they make fun of it by enacting or more or less becoming that archetypical caricature.

Mine's bereft of a name so far, but I'm sure you'll be able to pick out the bits I poke fun at after a while.

Anyway, there's that.


You might not like my "attitude" but I must lol at you for that, for you know not of me, yet you've already prejudicated a position against me! Silly.
I do not begrudge you for that, though. You'd have to try a lot harder if you wanted me to dislike you. :)

Secondly!


I didn't bash people who already learned it, nor do I slight the fact that others have to work somewhat harder than me to become good at things. I simply made the statement that I am a natural for everything that I try, and that it would, indeed, based upon that fact, be more-than-likely easier for me to learn programming/coding than the vast majority of people in general. That shouldn't really hurt anyone's feelings, I should think....


Well I already pointed out that I know next-to-nothing in regards to coding/programming presently. What little I used to know, I've long-forgotten. My memory is funny like that, I don't use something and I forget it within a few years...like Latin, Spanish, French, German...how to drive a standard shift vehicle without stalling it. (Yes, that's humor due mainly to humans in general having similarly afflicted memory)
So that's "what I've got."
Impressed?


Those ones aren't designed to be edgy/amazing, they're designed to be (hopefully) easily code-able, functional, and balanced for the most part.
My crazier ideas are holed up in long-deserted vault-topics on my clan's forums. Feel free to ask for a link if you're interested (I'm not sure about whether there are any advertising rules on these forums, and if so what they entail due mainly to my not having read them; I've been using "common forum sense" in my posting thus far).


You're implying I said otherwise...I did not say otherwise. I've enjoyed the majority of the races published and circulated in War3 to this point. Haven't come across any bad eggs yet.



I'll tell my brain cells to stop doing that if you think it's wrong. ;)


Well I did always think of eye cancer as a humorous topic. I guess it'll be that way unless I actually contract eye cancer...still I'd probably laugh at the irony.
You're not the first coder to bash WCS, but I'm not defending it nor promoting it, and I don't defend nor promote War3. To me both are simply tools made to fulfill a similar function. Both generally do what they were made to do, and I have no real qualms with either on that logic.


I'll be sure to let you know if/when that happens.


Some people take only a few words to carry their meaning across, some take many. My thoughts are such that I require many words to convey them, apparently.
I hope you don't dislike people for that characteristic, alone. :-\


I wasn't really worried about it, but thanks for the reassurance.


I've already stated I'm not an expert in coding, but I'll take your word for it. The only observations I've made have been obvious statements of fact, such as that, line for line, WCS generally takes less coding to construct a race file. That's a truth, at this point. It's not an attack or defense for either mod, just a simple observation that anyone could/would/should agree with.

I'll try saying it plainly-

I do not intend nor desire to get into any discussion that entails comparing War3 to any other game mod out there, primarily on the grounds that I do not consider myself knowledgeable enough about them to have an adequate position on them. So please stop trying to incite me (intentionally or not) to take a position until such a time I would be able to defend it. :P

I can respect that you have preferences or perhaps even biases in regards to coding/programming, but for now I do not, and that's just how it is. ;D

(http://img.ponibooru.org/images/c6/c6676ec4e55780dd4d1c5b6290fb190d)
-edited by ownz

I enjoy non-coders throwing out ideas. They sometimes provide ideas I as a coder wouldn't have come up with since my thinking is to bound to the constraints SourcePawn inflicts upon me and thinking outside of the box is hard.

That's what I do best! ;D
Box? What box? There was a box?...What's a box? :P

Well I'll admit that for the majority of the race ideas I put in here, I based them primarily on what I've already seen used in Warcraft mods, so there is SOME imaginative constraint going on on my side as well, but as I mentioned in my previous post, in some of my Race Idea topics on my clan forums, I threw caution to the wind and let my imagination flow freely for many races and skills. Trying to translate pre-existing characters into a Warcraft mod format (similar to those in this topic), or with completely new race ideas...some of which I still would like to see coded and functional some day.

Alas, I digress. Thanks for the moral support, Glider. ;)


I just got an idea for a new race by the way...I'll have to sort out the details in my head and toss them around on the clan forums before I submit it for actual coder perusal here.



HINT/Spoiler-
(http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z259/alias588/laughing-man.gif)

a race that allows you to take over other players's bodies?

wtf?

its ok bro. i got enough class and masters applications to worry about, i dont intended to write too much over a school year. the most productive in writing war3source for me is right after finals when i can do a mind dump and have a clear mind for war3source again.

now be nice
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3E4klQq3LTMFYp0KqulCjnzdc7eXFW0qt2Ga40iIJUv8VkeSfEVulxEoS1w)
(http://www.ponychan.net/chan/pic/src/131742307793.gif)

Who, me? :o




Well I'm thinking hacking-oriented, sure, but focusing more on what the character of "The Laughing Man" actually did in the anime overall, rather than specifically on the cyber-brain hacking bits...which he didn't actually do often...the Major cyber-brain hacked a LOT more than The Laughing Man. :P

My initial thoughts for potential skills/abilities/ultimates are:

"Eye Hack"
-Grants temporary full invisibility, but severely restricts movement and disables weapon use for the duration

"Delayed Action Virus"
-Targets the enemy player with the most kills and forces them to switch teams for several seconds before returning them to their starting team

"Anonymity"
-Chance to spawn with enemy skin (disguise)

"Remote Dummy" {I know that the Major used this one and The Laughing Man didn't, but meh}
-By operating a fake body remotely, the user escapes death (respawn)

"Cyber-Brain Hack"
-Hack into your enemy and shut them down (Freeze for a few seconds)


Those are just some initial thoughts I had after going back and watching a few episodes as of about two hours ago to now. I'll shuffle it into that race idea format I outlined in my opening post sometime later on and post the finished idea at that time.

are you kidding me?  the m,ajor hacked into peoples brains to see what they were thinking, but the laughing man controlled people through his hacks.  and he controlled a TON of people

Well if you count the number of people that the actual Laughing Man (Aoi) brain-hacked and physically controlled, you've got...Serano...and the lady running the "orphanage" he was laying low in (I count that one because he STOPPED her from messing with Togusa)...that cop at the conference...and that bellhop dude in the hotel. The rest were either brain-hacked by copy cats, or he was hacking them for some other purpose (the VAST majority of what Aoi did was Eye Hacking and computer/AI hacking to hide himself). At least in the anime this is true, I never read the mangas (I don't read mangas actually) so I'm not sure about if/how that would differ comparatively.

I'd have to go back through and count the number of times Motoko Brain Hacks people, but I feel like she did it more often...she did Eye Hacks nearly as much as Aoi, since she did the same kidnapping stunt Aoi pulled before. Hm...come to think of it, her Brain Hack total might be skewed because of the movies and 2nd Gig...I don't recall how many people she Brain Hacks in the first season by itself...possibly 0! :P